Author Topic: 12 Notes Not Enough?  (Read 15604 times)

7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2010, 05:47:05 PM »
For example:

Quote
True Temperament does not imply Just Intonation. It is physically impossible to implement Just Intonation in more than one specific key (and its relative minor) on any instrument with only 12 intervals in the octave. (Except perhaps for computer-controlled instruments using electronically generated sounds.)


Maybe this confused you guys? A tuning can have more than 12 notes to an octave, particularly if it's not using a 12tet keyboard.

Like I said...misleading.

Halfdim7

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2010, 05:52:56 PM »
It is my understanding that the irregularly shaped frets of a True Temperament neck(or one of their competitors) eliminates the intonation problem, by changing the contact point between the string and fret for each pitch along each string.
Don't get me wrong, If I'm being mislead, I would like to know. I just don't understand what's misleading about that.
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7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2010, 05:55:43 PM »
here's another one:

Quote
Previous attempts at implementing non-standard temperaments on the guitar, or of adding extra intervals, have relied on adding extra frets, or splitting the frets into separate pieces. This makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to employ modern rock and blues playing techniques like stringbending.

Another example of BS. I played the second guitar part in some live performances of Jon Catler's Evolution. There was nothing difficult or impossible about bending notes in my part.

I have no doubt that true temperament guitars are in tune...but their advertising copy has a smelly layer of BS to it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 06:10:57 PM by 7/4 »

7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2010, 05:58:59 PM »
It is my understanding that the irregularly shaped frets of a True Temperament neck(or one of their competitors) eliminates the intonation problem, by changing the contact point between the string and fret for each pitch along each string.

No...not the contact point. The distance between the fret and the bridge are adjusted to be more of a Just tuning than an equal temperament.

Don't get me wrong, If I'm being mislead, I would like to know. I just don't understand what's misleading about that.

I'm giving you examples!

7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2010, 06:04:50 PM »
Apparently, True Temperament guitars, as their name implies, are an attempt to get a 12 tone equal temperament guitar to play more in tune. That's what a tempered tuning does!

Their copy is written to sell guitar necks, not to educate a curious person about microtonal tunings.

Halfdim7

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2010, 06:13:12 PM »
The distance between the fret and bridge are irrelevant if a string is not contacting it. The string produces the pitch.

Your examples were posted while I was editing my reply. For some reason I don't always get a warning when another reply was made while I was still typing.
There is also a slight delay before my posts show up, it seems. I've heard other people say the have the same problem on other forums.

I still think "misleading" is too strong a word.
If they are talking about a 12 note, standard guitar, bringing up alternate systems would just be confusing to the customer. The player's I know of that use True Temperament guitars(Steve Vai being the most famous. Frank Gambale uses a less extreme version by FanFret, I believe), use them to get better intonation from the 12 tone system, not to utilize other systems.
....lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing....

7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2010, 06:18:16 PM »
The distance between the fret and bridge are irrelevant if a string is not contacting it. The string produces the pitch.

The string vibrates. The length of the string between the fret and the bridge determine the pitch.

Halfdim7

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2010, 06:20:53 PM »
I didn't say it determined the pitch. I said it produces the pitch.
Take the strings off your guitar and see what it sounds like. What tuning is it in now?
....lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing....

7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2010, 06:26:48 PM »
I didn't say it determined the pitch. I said it produces the pitch.
Take the strings off your guitar and see what it sounds like. What tuning is it in now?

Don't know...they're not tuned up to concert pitch.

You're talking nonsense now. You already said a while ago you don't know much about tuning.

Sounds like you just want to argue and you don't know enough about what you're disagreeing about.

Halfdim7

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2010, 06:33:53 PM »
I meant what tuning would your guitar be in without strings on it? Since you claim that the contact point between string and fret doesn't determine the pitch.
I never said I don't know much about tuning. I said I don't know much about non-12 tone systems.
I'm not arguing about anything, I asked a simple question.
If you are unable to answer it, it does not reflect on my intelligence.
....lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing....

7/4

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #70 on: June 24, 2010, 06:45:06 PM »
I did answer your question, there's not enough information for me to give much of an answer.

I still think you're just being obnoxious and asking nonsense questions.

millions

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2010, 07:36:24 PM »
Can't we agree that there is more than one way to skin a cat? I think so....anyway, I think any discrepancies would be hidden, unless they were being played on an organ.
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funkle

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Re: 12 Notes Not Enough?
« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2010, 07:54:18 PM »
OK, this thread is going nowhere fast. I'm going to lock it for the time being.